Curse

AnnaCloud9 · Feb 04, 2008, 05:31 AM // 05:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inger

if anything ursan opens up the game to more professions.

Sorry, but the last I checked, once you click that mind numbing Ursan blessing, you're no longer your profession. To say this opened the door for other professions is rediculous. How is having Soul Reaping as a necromancer using Ursan blessing allowing that player to actually play as a necromancer?
Ursan has effectively reduced all classes to one very simple factor:

Your energy

I mean, when an Ursan for President player steps into the game, decidedly bent on doing more Ursan trips, what goes on in that person's mind when they scroll through their characters? Gee, should I take my Ursan Ele since she has the most energy and looks cuter than my Mesmer? Or should I take my Ursan warrior so I can show off my shiny new set of chaos gloves and dwarven knickers?

Your skills, the way you manage them, the way your group synchronizes and synergizes, and the overall attitude of the group has been reduced to this: Your rank in Norn? I am grateful for heros in this regard, and am glad Guild Wars remains fun for the masses that choose to either Ursan (I mean PUG), or choose not too. To each her or his own.

Coloneh · Feb 04, 2008, 05:43 AM // 05:43

the only profession that is left out for good reason are mesmers. they suck.

any other profession should be able to get into a guild group that hopefully isnt running ursan.

Two April Mornings · Feb 04, 2008, 05:46 AM // 05:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

the only profession that is left out for good reason are mesmers. they suck.

Ignorance. This thread and the majority of the PVE community that follow the trifecta/Ursan/Three-necro = ignorance. A mesmer can tear through PVE (arguably not as easily as a paragon) and has some advantages over mobs with many healers that other professions don't have. Mesmers do not suck.

arsie · Feb 04, 2008, 05:47 AM // 05:47

By all means use Ursan if you enjoy being in an Ursan team. And roll up a bonder, SS necro, obsi tank, frozen soil ranger, nuker, whatever, if you enjoy playing in those typecast PuGs in those so-called Elite areas.

Or, alternatively, find a friend, just one. Bring 6 heroes, and do those same areas the way you like to play.

arsie · Feb 04, 2008, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

the only profession that is left out for good reason are mesmers. they suck...

So sad. Desperate mesmers play as fast cast nukers to get into groups.

But thats the same as using Ursan, I feel. I did not roll up a caster so I can run to mobs and slash them with my nails.

I guess with the right build, mesmers can replace an SS necro, just not quite as devastating.

They have pretty lingerie.

AnnaCloud9 · Feb 04, 2008, 05:51 AM // 05:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Two April Mornings

Ignorance. This thread and the majority of the PVE community that follow the trifecta/Ursan/Three-necro = ignorance. A mesmer can tear through PVE (arguably not as easily as a paragon) and has some advantages over mobs with many healers that other professions don't have. Mesmers do not suck.

I couldn't have put that better myself

Dr Strangelove · Feb 04, 2008, 05:59 AM // 05:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Two April Mornings

Ignorance. This thread and the majority of the PVE community that follow the trifecta/Ursan/Three-necro = ignorance. A mesmer can tear through PVE (arguably not as easily as a paragon) and has some advantages over mobs with many healers that other professions don't have. Mesmers do not suck.

I agree with you that mesmers aren't complete crap, but they're certainly one of the weaker classes. With PvE skills, there's a sort of new class that's been created that all the caster classes (rit, ele, mesmer, necro, to a lesser extent monk) can play. Mesmers happen to be an especially strong choice for this. However, the defining abilities of mesmers - shutdown, degen, reactive damage - tend to be less useful in PvE than raw damage.

Racthoh · Feb 04, 2008, 06:00 AM // 06:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

the only profession that is left out for good reason are mesmers. they suck.

Mesmers have inferior AoE damage compared to the other professions, and thus the community deems them useless. The more numbers you can make appear at once the better your class is.

arcanemacabre · Feb 04, 2008, 06:23 AM // 06:23

The main problem is Mesmers require actual intelligence to be on the receiving end for them to be the most effective. If you can't psych out your opponent, you're very limited on what you can do with a Mesmer. Don't get me wrong, I love my Mesmer, being my 2nd most played class, but they just aren't as effective as all the other classes in 99% of PvE.

aapo · Feb 04, 2008, 06:35 AM // 06:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Mesmers are really not all that bad. The domination line is very useful for taking out targets that matter. They just don't see play because players value AoE more than anything.

- Also Signet of Illusions + Ether Nightmare + Cry of Pain equals 260 damage to every monster in the area every 15 seconds with zero time spent on grinding. If you do grind, you could take elite like Mantra of Recovery to increase DPS. PvE skills have made Mesmer quite viable PvE profession, luckily for those who chose to play Mesmer in PvE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Anyone else find it funny that the "noob group" is now defined as one where people actually play as their own professions, with some modicum of skill required to get through the area?

- Noob group is the group of players with attitude.
"I play what I want!"
"I don't need to ping my build!"
"I don't want any scrubby UB!"
"My Rit equals five Warriors!"
"I didn't manage to slip into Ursan group without Ursan. I'm pissed so nerf UB!"

@AnnaCloud9:
I don't really understand what you're trying to say. Previously areas that demanded very specialized builds are now open to every profession and player with PvE skills. Thus UB among others have made the game more open. You might see UB as gimmick, but every other build on those areas is gimmicky too. That's because everyday skills just can't answer over-the-roof stats of monsters. The "challenge" of those elite areas is to find the combination(s) that work.

Esan · Feb 04, 2008, 06:55 AM // 06:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

I never see Rt/R with Broad Head Arrow, one of the best skills to use in PvE. I don't need to have a lot of damage when one skill completely shuts down a priority target.

BHA is useful for the very occasional monk or Sandstorm boss in hard mode. Over the entire game there aren't more than half a dozen of them. In every other case you want to let the mobs activate most of their skills so they take damage from Spiteful Spirit or Spoil Victor.

AnnaCloud9 · Feb 04, 2008, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Hi aapo

What I'm trying to say is once you activate your Ursan, it doesn't matter which profession you are. What matters is your Norn rank, and the amount of inherant energy your class comes with. To say it opens the door for other classes doesn't make sense, as they aren't being played as their class.

If I were to have all 10 of my characters (one of each profession + a secondary warrior) outfitted with rank 9 Norn, why would I take my mesmer over another character? Why would I take my axe warrior over my hammer warrior? Just to show a mesmer and a hammer warrior now has the opportunity to get in a group? It's still not achieving the goal of getting all classes involved in elite areas, in a manner that justifies them being there in the first place.

With the standard 8 party assembly of mixed professions, I at least had the option of using 6 of my ten characters, regardless of specific builds, based on how I felt like playing at the time.

When you use Ursan, you're not a Mesmer looking for a group. You're an Ursan looking for a group.

lutz · Feb 04, 2008, 07:00 AM // 07:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

A ward is not going to provide anywhere near as much defense as a paragon, and your damage will not be better unless you're balling large groups of enemies for Rodgort's. At which point I'd rather have a rit for Splinter Weapon since it's better.

You're basically devoting that entire character slot just for defense when you can use a paragon to provide more defense with offense. SY is not going to reduce armour ignoring damage either, TNTF will. Let's also not forget that it gives a party wide heal when the duration expires.

Bonders as a whole are fairly worthless. Devoting skill slots on a monk to reduce the damage done by physicals when you can just chain Aegis or slap Weakness on a mob's face.

I never see Rt/R with Broad Head Arrow, one of the best skills to use in PvE. I don't need to have a lot of damage when one skill completely shuts down a priority target.

Mesmers are really not all that bad. The domination line is very useful for taking out targets that matter. They just don't see play because players value AoE more than anything.

Every build will incorporate a 2-monk backline; having a real WoH (that is, a hybrid) with a bonder is essentially all you need: occasional top-offs, and the like. 91% damage mitigated with unlimited energy is pretty good, I heard. Hell, you could probably even mop up damage with a single Heal Party.

If your backline is halfway decent you won't need a paragon, and you can focus on something actually worthwhile - e.g., another warrior.

Racthoh · Feb 04, 2008, 07:02 AM // 07:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

If you can't psych out your opponent, you're very limited on what you can do with a Mesmer.

*scratches head* in PvE?

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

Also Signet of Illusions + Ether Nightmare + Cry of Pain equals 260 damage to every monster in the area every 15 seconds with zero time spent on grinding.

Ehhh Splinter Weapon is going to do more damage faster, in one skill slot, and not use my elite. If that is what a mesmer is going to do to try and convince me to let it in the group I'm going to slot my rit hero with 14 channeling, Splinter Weapon, and nothing else instead.

Trying to make a mesmer do good AoE damage is not how you should play a PvE mesmer because it's their weakest attribute. Skills like Backfire and Shatter Enchantment are going to make important things die. When important things die you've won the fight. Necromancers in comparison are good at making the unimportant targets die (SS on whatever attacks fastest, minion masters throwing damage randomly around the mob), with very little support on the targets that matter (Barbs on the monk while our physicals beat it up, Rip Enchantment if something annoying pops up).

DivineEnvoy · Feb 04, 2008, 07:03 AM // 07:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

- Also Signet of Illusions + Ether Nightmare + Cry of Pain equals 260 damage to every monster in the area every 15 seconds with zero time spent on grinding. If you do grind, you could take elite like Mantra of Recovery to increase DPS. PvE skills have made Mesmer quite viable PvE profession, luckily for those who chose to play Mesmer in PvE.

Cry of Pain can only do 100 AoE damage with 12 seconds recharge with max rank in Sunspear, and Ether Nightmare does not do any damage at all. How do you do 260 damage with that combination?

I tried Glyph of Renewal + Cry of Pain to do 200 damage every 12 seconds, but the truth is, Elementalists can do more damage within half the duration.

arcanemacabre · Feb 04, 2008, 07:05 AM // 07:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

*scratches head* in PvE?

That was kinda my point. You can't in PvE. Therefore, Mesmers aren't as effective in PvE as they are in PvP for that very reason.

kokuou · Feb 04, 2008, 07:07 AM // 07:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnnaCloud9

Hi aapo

When you use Ursan, you're not a Mesmer looking for a group. You're an Ursan looking for a group.

Exactly. Which is what allows someone whose main character is a Mesmer get into a UW/FoW/Urgoz/Deep group to complete the area and possibly add a statue to their HoM.

That's not to say that a Mesmer has to use Ursan all the time; far from it. But, this allows someone that may not have one of those areas unlocked with their main character to give them a try.

Daenara · Feb 04, 2008, 07:13 AM // 07:13

lol at the people saying paragons suck .

I know it's a tired old line... but if you can't see the advantages of a paragon, you're not doing it right. I'm not talking about the 5 attack skills + signet of synergy + other random crap that I've seen on pug paragon bars, but a real paragon bar is just sexy. Brings a new meaning to tab spacing your way through pve, because you'll just roll through it :P

Oh, and..er.. back to the main topic, the only class I can see as being disadvantaged as an ursan (if that is what you like to do!) is perhaps asassin, with their lower energy pool and armor class. But... if you're an ursan, who cares?

Racthoh · Feb 04, 2008, 07:34 AM // 07:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esan

BHA is useful for the very occasional monk or Sandstorm boss in hard mode. Over the entire game there aren't more than half a dozen of them.

Which is why PvE is fairly easy; there are few encounters that are actually difficult. Broadhead Arrow suddenly makes the most difficult encounters as easy as the rest of the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esan

In every other case you want to let the mobs activate most of their skills so they take damage from Spiteful Spirit or Spoil Victor.

Spiteful Spirit on a caster is going to yield terrible damage returns unless you're fighting a group of balled up casters. In which case I'd use Splinter Weapon since my warrior attacks faster than a caster casts. Spoil Victor is useful in multiple healer situations; physicals pound one while the SV deals with the other. Otherwise it's damage on a target I could care less about and just speeds up the process of wiping an already defeated mob.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutz

Every build will incorporate a 2-monk backline; having a real WoH (that is, a hybrid) with a bonder is essentially all you need: occasional top-offs, and the like. 91% damage mitigated with unlimited energy is pretty good, I heard. Hell, you could probably even mop up damage with a single Heal Party.

If your backline is halfway decent you won't need a paragon, and you can focus on something actually worthwhile - e.g., another warrior.

I can drop that second monk for the paragon which is my point. There are very few areas that a second monk is truly necessary when you abuse PvE only skills. Places like Urgoz or The Deep where healing 12 people would be too much for the WoH guy, or areas with NPCs that don't get the benefits of your passive defense. With that much damage reduction coming from a single skill, not even considering what Aegis, Enfeebling Blood, etc... are all doing, it's very hard to justify using two party slots on characters that aren't attacking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

That was kinda my point. You can't in PvE. Therefore, Mesmers aren't as effective in PvE as they are in PvP for that very reason.

But they're dumb enough to attack through Empathy and cast through Backfire. Taking down monks is so much easier when almost all of their healing is being negated by Backfire. When the healer of the group dies it's just a matter of killing the enemies attacking your wall of passive defense.

arcanemacabre · Feb 04, 2008, 07:43 AM // 07:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

But they're dumb enough to attack through Empathy and cast through Backfire. Taking down monks is so much easier when almost all of their healing is being negated by Backfire. When the healer of the group dies it's just a matter of killing the enemies attacking your wall of passive defense.

That is true, but is a Mesmer designed to take down those one or two trouble foes per group needed versus any other character that can take down the group as a whole in about the same amount of time? Of course it works, but is it better, or even on par with other classes in PvE?